Brian Bourke interview 10 October 2005

A policeman came to me and said you're wanted at Pentridge straight away, the chief commissioner said you've got to go out to Pentridge. I said, I don't do what the chief commissioner tells me to do. He came back another couple of minutes later and I said, you talk to the prosecutor down there and he can check the thing out. I don't know anything about it. Anyway the prosecutor said to me, look we've got the case adjourned - you've got to go out to Pentridge, there's a fellow out there who's injured one of the governors. So I'm then told it was my poor old mate Bill who I'd dealt with. I was driven out in a car, I've never had such a car ride in my life - we were doing about 100 miles an hour out to Pentridge.

When we get there, I'm taken down to the meat room and I'm told that Bill's upstairs, he's got Governor Armstrong up there and Governor Armstrong's badly injured and he won't come down and he won't do anything until I speak to him. And he would not give up the knife to anyone who asked. And if they threaten to come up, he's going to make a nuisance of himself. He had a knife, a huge knife. I was asked to go up and try and disarm him. I was told to go up to the meat room by a set of stairs and that if there was any move to attack me, they would shoot Burton. They've all got these flack suits on, these coppers.

Anyway I went up the stairs and after about 5 or 10 minutes, I was able to persuade Burton to give me the knife and I just chucked the knife downstairs. Then with the courage that is peculiar to policemen, they all fly upstairs. They took him down and the ambulance was waiting there to take the Governor to hospital. Now I was recommended for a valour medal. There were also letters from Mr Armstrong, the senior Governor of Pentridge about the whole thing. But all that happened was that Jim Armstrong got the valour medal or something and that was it.

We re-enacted that recently, before Pentridge was pulled down 2 or 3 years ago. Some organisation had bought Pentridge to redevelop it and asked would I come out so I went out there and we had lunch and then we had a re-enactment of this thing what had happened there and it's all on video. I've got the video at home. I'll give that to the Bar too because I'm sure my wife or anyone else wouldn't want it.

Can you recall for us what you said to that man?

The details were very sparse because in fairness to the policeman, the bloke who was prosecuting me at the city court - he didn't know anything about it and the fellow driving us out didn't know anything. When we got out there, they were saying to me that Burton had been reclaimed on parole because of this technical thing. Bill Burton was saying that he didn't see why he should be there and I was trying to explain to him, "Well, what's Mr Armstrong got to do with that?" This bloke was lying on the floor, bleeding, and Burton's saying that I had to do something about it.

I said, "Well look, if you give me the knife, that's the way we're going to solve this problem. You're going to be charged for doing something to this poor fellow". He's as white as a sheet, Governor Armstrong, he's now a good friend of mine. Burton said "No, I won't give you the knife because I want to know what you can do for me". I said "I'd do anything for you". He said, "Will you appear for me on this?" I said "Anything, I'll do anything". I would have given him any undertaking. In fact, I sought some advice at the Bar Council later on as to whether I could appear. Daryl Dawson was then the chairman of a committee, I think. He was later to become a former judge of the High Court and he said I shouldn't appear. But I did give evidence for Burton and he got a pretty lenient sentence when the whole thing was explained and Armstrong had recovered. There was no real animosity, it was just a bureaucracy run riot. Why the poor old fellow was out there after all these years and for this very weak breach of a parole. Anyway, they claimed him.

So you felt no personal threat to your safety negotiating with someone like this?

Oh no, no, I didn't really feel scared going up those stairs. I would have been more scared if there was any firing around. I didn't know what was going to happen, but they were all there, armed - there must have been about 6 or 8 of these coppers there - and the thing had gone on for about an hour or so before we got out there. It was pretty tense. I've got all the correspondence about it.

Conducted for the Bar Oral History project by Juliette Brodsky in Owen Dixon Chambers East and filmed by Stewart Carter (People Pictures)