John Batt

Can I mention my first brief - just to say that the brief was actually arranged before I went into Ninian Stephen’s chambers, and it was on the first day and in those days you didn’t have a non-reading period, you could take a brief, and in fact I don’t think I’d signed the Bar Roll. I didn’t sign it until about a fortnight later. I had this brief for the first day – I didn’t have one for another fortnight – but I was not paid for more than a year, and there were some solicitors – I happened to fall for this solicitor – there were some solicitors who used to brief a certain junior several times then move onto the next one. Anyhow, it was more than a year …

Juliette Brodsky

How did you make ends meet?

John Batt

Oh well, you got paid for something else. In those days, I was a bachelor and living at my parents’ place.

JD Phillips

You had to have a certain amount of capital, I was told, to go to the Bar, I think 50 pounds or something like that to live on in those early days when you weren’t getting paid at all.

Clive Tadgell

You had to pay your Master 50 guineas.

JD Phillips

Did you?

John Batt

I didn’t.

Bill Ormiston

You theoretically had to, but a large number excused you, and I certainly was excused.

John Batt

So was I. I offered – I can’t remember but it was declined.

James Merralls

It wasn’t 50 guineas, it was 100.

Bill Ormiston

It was 100 by then, wasn’t it?

Clive Tadgell

I think mine was 50.

Bill Ormiston

Well, it might have been, because you were just a little bit earlier than us, weren’t you?

James Merralls

Clive was a month before me and I paid 100.

Clive Tadgell

You were overcharged, Jim, I think.

Bill Ormiston

But it was a problem and quite often you had to go to your bank manager and a lot of us were encouraged to go to the bank manager at the bottom of Owen Dixon Chambers …

John Batt

Fred Davis.

Bill Ormiston

Yes, Mr Davis was the first one.

JD Phillips

Steady on, we all started before Owen Dixon Chambers.

Bill Ormiston

No, I didn’t.

John Batt

I didn’t.

Bill Ormiston

Anyway, one was encouraged by various people to go to this branch.

Juliette Brodsky

And he was quite accustomed to seeing you all tramping in?

Bill Ormiston

Well the first two years was Mr Davis’ time and he was very good to the barristers and therefore he was very generous about allowing overdrafts, upon which I lived for three quarters of my time as a barrister in one way or another. But then they bought in another manager, I think it was Mr Taylor, and he was equally as hard and he dragged back all our overdraft limits and I was desperate at the end of this next two years. And then they bought in this other fellow, whose name I have forgotten, and he was generous again and they seemed to do this two years and two years about.

Juliette Brodsky

So it was a carrot and stick situation.

Bill Ormiston

It was a very confusing life while barristers were … there was such a delay in payment, and we had a big meeting I remember at which we were going to set up a blacklist, a blacklist of solicitors.

Juliette Brodsky

A blacklist?!

Clive Tadgell

Yes, yes.

Bill Ormiston

And I spoke against it, I think it was the only time I ever spoke at a Bar meeting, I said I thought we were getting to the stage of appearing like a trade union or something like that and we shouldn’t do those sorts of things, but anyhow it was done, and a number of solicitors were put on this list and that protected some of the young barristers.

Juliette Brodsky

Was it widely known (that) this list existed?

Bill Ormiston

Oh, I think the solicitors were told, yes.

Juliette Brodsky

Did it change their practices?

Bill Ormiston

They did improve a bit.