Judge Elizabeth Gaynor (County Court of Victoria) Interview 18/10/2005

The main thing about Ray (Perry) was (that) he was incredibly kind and I stayed with him for twenty months instead of the usual nine or ten months. I don’t think he was ever one who gave me great pearls of wisdom. He just would watch what I was doing. My practice went well from the start because I’d been at Legal Aid and as I said they were generous in briefing and in work so it was just his generosity. He seemed to enjoy having me there and enjoyed talking about what I was doing and we’d chuckle and laugh and he made me feel very comfortable right from the start and that’s an invaluable thing for a young barrister to have.

Were there many women in your annual intake?

Well, there were thirty-seven in our intake and I think about nine or ten were women. The (Supreme Court of Victoria) Chief Justice Marilyn Warren was in my reader’s group, several judges from here, Meryl Sexton and Jeannette Morris were also in my reader’s group and there’s where in fact I met my husband (Judge John Smallwood) as well. We met in the reader’s group.

Can I ask what was that first meeting (with your future husband) like?

It’s such a cruel terrible story. It’s not so much the meeting. When I went to the Bar, one of my best friends Julie Sutherland who was also at Legal Aid came with me - Julie’s a sensational barrister. Anyway we walked in the first day and I looked around the room and I feel terrible because they were lovely guys and I said, “Oh not much talent here, Jules!” (Laughs) I can’t even remember the first time I met John, actually. I just remember he was there and we got more friendly as the course went on, basically.

Conducted for the Bar Oral History project by Juliette Brodsky, and filmed by Stewart Carter (People Pictures)