Jeff Sher interview 18 November 2009

You've been involved in a number of Bar committees, but I wonder, I'm particularly interested if you have occasion to work with younger barristers or in terms of, say, the Readers' Course, what sorts of advice do you give people starting out at the Bar or in their early years at the Bar?

Well, I actually taught advocacy at Monash University for seven years and I was on the Bar Council for a number of years, I've lost track of how many, and I've given the occasional lecture to the Readers' Course. The first thing I would say is, you've got to do your homework. You can't wing it as a barrister. You've got to do your homework. You should take in effect whatever's on offer unless there's some special reason why you don't want to. I mean, if you go to the Bar to be a specialist in some esoteric area of law and that's all you want to do, as long as you're prepared to starve, that's all you ought to do, but I would advise anyone who wants to be a good advocate to do whatever's offered to you. I think if you can grab a jury case, you should. Everyone ought to do criminal cases. I mean, that is where you learn to be an advocate. It's where you learn to think on your feet. It's where you learn to manage judges as well as juries. But the other advice I give, and I gave this advice actually to a dinner that I was asked to address of Readers, and that is, don't become a bookworm, that is to say, don't just focus on the Bar and the law as your life. Go to the theatre, get married or get a partner, have kids, go on holidays, become a rounded person is what I would recommend. Don't just focus on being a barrister, but be prepared to work hard.

You've had a long and stable marriage. I shouldn't perhaps say it this way, but the Bar does have its fair share of marriage break-ups and family break-downs.

I can understand that. I mean, there's a guy I know, who will remain nameless, who I used to brief when I was a solicitor. (But) he used to go home and have his dinner in his study at night. His wife would serve him dinner in his study at night because he had so much work. Well, you know, that's not on as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't do that and I wouldn't recommend anyone to do that. I think you've got to mix with your family. I think wives get neglected. I think barristers become too focused on their careers and their work. My wife and I always used to take holidays; I mean, we'd always take some time off, leave the kids in the care of somebody and cross your fingers and hope they were there when you got back, but have good holidays.

So, the essence of it is to tell young barristers to, literally, "get a life"?

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, what's the point?

Are there any trends at the Bar that you feel concerned about in terms of, say, Bar culture, Bar practice?

Well, I'll tell you one trend that I think has got to be stopped. It's sort of a combination of factors. I noticed towards the end of my career when I was doing a lot of big work, big cases, I mean, and this desk wouldn't accommodate some of the briefs I got. You'd need a wall to accommodate the brief in some cases. There's a growing trend to leaving, I think we're getting Americanised, we're leaving no stone unturned. Every single point's chased down to the last, nth degree. Solicitors ply you with material like you wouldn't believe. You can't read it all; you can't understand it all; you've got to delegate parts of it to other people. There's a growing trend in the big firms, I think, for the solicitors to do more and more work and I think what they lack, and I had this borne out par excellence in one of the last cases I did, they lack judgment, they don't understand the forensic exercise of arguing a case. A lot of them know a lot and a lot of them think they know everything that needs to be known, but in many cases they just don't have that extra touch that a barrister brings to a case. I think there's too much work going on frankly. It's a strange thing to say, but I think there's far too much work going on and the courts are struggling with it. They're trying to bring in rules and make different practices and set up specialist lists and what-have-you. For the clients, it's critical. I mean, no client doesn't want to win a case, and they want you to do everything, provided they can afford it. But it's got out of control, I think.

So, in a sense, yes - as you say - they're overwhelmed with too much minutae, but there's just simply not enough room for the powers of judgment and discernment?

Well, and what's more, even as senior and as experienced as I was, I found myself being second-guessed by solicitors and often junior solicitors and I actually returned a brief on that basis towards the end of my career. I just said, "I've given you the advice. You won't take it. You're second-guessing me. You don't need me. Do it yourself". It ended up (that) the advice I gave in the first instance was what they eventually had to do. Anyway, I'm not going to tell you the case and you can probably guess what it was, but it ended up as a disaster.

To sum up, what do you feel has been your happiest or proudest moment during your years of practice at the Victorian Bar?

Well, it's not been one moment. I've had my great successes, I've had happy clients, I've had a degree of personal pride, but I think it's been an unbelievably long-term, satisfying career: that's been my happiest moment. I've loved being a barrister. It's a great profession.

Do you miss life at the Bar?

Yes and no. The camaraderie, the challenges, the interesting work, provided me with a good income. I sort of miss that. But on the other hand, I did 47 hard years. I mean, it was a lot of hard work, a lot of stress. I was 71 at the time I was going to have to change my chambers because the building I was in, sharing chambers with Richard Stanley, the lease was up and we all had to move. So I got involved in the planning for the new set of chambers and then I thought to myself one day, why am I going through the trouble of shifting my chambers at the age of 71? How long am I going to stay at the Bar? I thought, no, now's the time. So I decided to retire.

Did you ever aspire to being a judge?

Well, I've been offered an appointment which I thought seriously about (but) eventually decided I wouldn't take it. I don't think I'm temperamentally suited to be a judge.

Why do you say that?

Well, I don't think I've got the patience that's required. I mean, I sort of view with breathless admiration the amount of patience that has to be exercised by judges from time to time and I think I would have missed the camaraderie of the Bar and the challenges. I mean, you effectively have an audience of one when you're a judge, namely yourself. The only person you see regularly is yourself and what-have-you. I don't think I would have enjoyed it and I'm not absolutely certain, I would have tried, I'm not sure I would have made a good judge, quite frankly. I think the skills that made me a good barrister aren't necessarily the skills that make a good judge.

Jeff Sher, thank you very much.

Conducted for the Victorian Bar oral history project by Juliette Brodsky, and filmed by Stewart Carter on 18 November 2009