Jeff Sher interview 18 November 2009

Subsequently I believe Kerry Packer actually sued one of your colleagues, Douglas Meagher QC who years ago was senior counsel assisting Frank Costigan during the royal commission and it was a consequence of the work being done in the royal commission that Kerry Packer sued Douglas Meagher.

Well he sued him for defamation, I think Packer was pretty cross with Doug Meagher and there had been rumours circulating (about) what was it - the lizard?

The Goanna?

The Goanna was Kerry Packer and I think Packer thought, and I think a number of people thought that the person who spread this around was Doug Meagher. There wasn't a shred of evidence to support such a supposition. In any event, Malcolm Turnbull was acting for Kerry Packer, and I don't know, (he) must have had a rush of blood (to the head) because they issued proceedings in defamation. Turnbull knew about defamation because he'd done a fair bit himself and the flaw in the case was, that they didn't plead any facts in relation to publication: when, where, and whatever. It's an absolutely fundamental issue in a defamation case. I was briefed by Doug Meagher's solicitors to act for Doug. Can't recall whether I was a silk or not at the time, but in any event I went over to Sydney and I advised Doug that I thought we should take out a summons to strike out the proceedings because (of) this fundamental flaw in them and he said "Whatever you say, Jeff". He was a terrific client. So we went over to Sydney and appeared before David Hunt who was the specialist defamation judge in Sydney and Terry Tobin appeared, I think Terry might have been a silk at this stage, anyway, he appeared for Packer. Well I got up and we argued the point and lunchtime came and after lunch, Terry Tobin said to the court and to me, "We're going to withdraw the proceedings". Well I knew that it was pretty important for Doug to have this matter fixed and not left floating around to be tried again, so I took a bit of a punt without instructions and submitted to David Hunt that they couldn't withdraw the proceedings at this stage, they had to have the leave of the court to do it. The leave of the court shouldn't be granted and that Doug Meagher was entitled to be vindicated by having proceedings dismissed, and I submitted the proceedings should be dismissed. Well, the matter was argued and then Hunt reserved his decision. Strangely enough, Doug Meagher was in Sydney at the time, although I didn't know it, and I ran into him at the airport and saw him and I said, "Doug, you're not going to be very happy with me. I could have got you out of these proceedings but I've taken a bit of a punt". I told him what I'd done. He said, "Whatever you say, Jeff". He was happy to go along with it. David Hunt gave a judgement not long thereafter in which he dismissed the proceedings and ordered costs. So Doug was in effect vindicated by what had happened. That really was the end of it.

It's a courageous thing to do, though, especially against someone like Kerry Packer.

Well, some might say stupid, but it just seemed to me that it wasn't an entirely hopeless position to argue that they couldn't withdraw the proceedings. I mean it's a pretty serious thing to do to sue a member of the Bar for defamation without a shred of evidence to support the allegation that he'd published anything, and Meagher was entitled to be vindicated by having the proceedings thrown out. Anyway, that's what happened.

So it wasn't just a "put up or shut up", it was actually, costs as you say (that) were awarded.

Proceedings were thrown out in effect. So, if they wanted to bring a proceeding, they knew they had to prove when, where and to whom any publication that occurred, and of course they had not a shred of evidence.

Did you have any thoughts subsequently when I believe at the state funeral for Kerry Packer, James Packer once again alluded to the fact that his father's name had been smeared?

Well, that really had to do with the royal commission and Packer outed himself. I mean, he wasn't named publicly by anyone until Packer chose to name himself. Was his name smeared? Well, who knows?

Conducted for the Victorian Bar oral history project by Juliette Brodsky, and filmed by Stewart Carter on 18 November 2009